Stan
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Post by Stan on Aug 7, 2020 23:15:32 GMT -5
I'd point out that the US has 4% of the world's population and >20% of the Covid cases. Common sense says we're doing something different and wrong. It's not like our testing is better (it's worse per capita).
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graham
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Post by graham on Aug 8, 2020 5:04:10 GMT -5
Will they slow it down and make it less likely, especially with social distancing?
Yes or no.
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MalcolmR
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Post by MalcolmR on Aug 8, 2020 7:50:37 GMT -5
I'd point out that the US has 4% of the world's population and >20% of the Covid cases. Common sense says we're doing something different and wrong. It's not like our testing is better (it's worse per capita). But if you test more, you will find more cases. And if you don't test until the patient becomes a hospital case, you will find a very low level of transmission.
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Gimpy
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Post by Gimpy on Aug 8, 2020 10:26:07 GMT -5
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Gimpy
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Post by Gimpy on Aug 8, 2020 14:51:52 GMT -5
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Post by martycanuck on Aug 8, 2020 19:42:50 GMT -5
Not sure what the invalid argument is, a mask will slow down the distance a virus will travel but the virus can still travel through the mask. I think that is the point Ben was making. And, sitting at my desk at work when nobody is within a good 20 feet or more of me is a bit ridiculous. That is why most people in my office take them off when they are at their desks. We do have protocols in place that we have to wipe down our work area with disinfectant wipes for the areas we touched, mouse, keyboard, computers, laptops, etc. when we leave to go home. And again, nobody is going into my work area and touching my equipment nor am I going into anyone else's area and touching items in their workspace. But, we have to wipe down everything as a requirement for working in the office. I personally, don't mind doing any of that since it is good to see my colleagues again in person after four plus months. So people in your office aren’t concerned that this virus seems to be like MERS and spreads in large centrally air-conditioned spaces with a lot of people?
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Ben
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Post by Ben on Aug 8, 2020 19:49:44 GMT -5
Will they slow it down and make it less likely, especially with social distancing?
Yes or no.
Distancing is a completely different subject, but if you're asking about masks alone, with people who are not coughing or sneezing, then the answer is no. The answer all the medical experts gave before they realized people needed something to cling to in order to calm the panic.
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Gimpy
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Post by Gimpy on Aug 8, 2020 20:30:43 GMT -5
Ben, You disagree with the Mayo clinic? Not all covid droplets are .03 microns!
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graham
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Post by graham on Aug 9, 2020 15:56:05 GMT -5
Will they slow it down and make it less likely, especially with social distancing?
Yes or no.
Distancing is a completely different subject, but if you're asking about masks alone, with people who are not coughing or sneezing, then the answer is no. The answer all the medical experts gave before they realized people needed something to cling to in order to calm the panic. Distancing is *not* a "completely different subject" and I don't accept that masks are just some sort of security blanket for nervous public.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 9, 2020 21:09:24 GMT -5
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Post by martycanuck on Aug 10, 2020 6:44:59 GMT -5
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 10, 2020 11:51:12 GMT -5
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MalcolmR
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Post by MalcolmR on Aug 10, 2020 12:27:50 GMT -5
How can the Big Ten vote 12-2?
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Post by kellylorraine on Aug 10, 2020 13:48:45 GMT -5
How can the Big Ten vote 12-2? The Big 10 has 14 teams, the Big 12 has 10.
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MalcolmR
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Post by MalcolmR on Aug 10, 2020 16:03:58 GMT -5
Of course. Silly me.
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Post by Juli on Aug 10, 2020 17:58:15 GMT -5
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 10, 2020 22:08:04 GMT -5
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mank
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Post by mank on Aug 11, 2020 6:07:05 GMT -5
Not sure what the invalid argument is, a mask will slow down the distance a virus will travel but the virus can still travel through the mask. I think that is the point Ben was making. And, sitting at my desk at work when nobody is within a good 20 feet or more of me is a bit ridiculous. That is why most people in my office take them off when they are at their desks. We do have protocols in place that we have to wipe down our work area with disinfectant wipes for the areas we touched, mouse, keyboard, computers, laptops, etc. when we leave to go home. And again, nobody is going into my work area and touching my equipment nor am I going into anyone else's area and touching items in their workspace. But, we have to wipe down everything as a requirement for working in the office. I personally, don't mind doing any of that since it is good to see my colleagues again in person after four plus months. So people in your office aren’t concerned that this virus seems to be like MERS and spreads in large centrally air-conditioned spaces with a lot of people? Marty, No people in my office aren't paranoid. I have been back to work for two weeks now and every one in my office believes all of this is completely overblown. As I said we only have 18 people total in my office and we have only had eight people in the office at one time. I believe people have to live their lives and too many small businesses have gone under. Three of the gyms near me have close permanently. And, a restaurant that is near my home is going to close after being in business since 1954. They can't survive on only 25% maximum capacity a dictate by Commandant Tom Wolf of Pennsylvania. How he came up with 25% for every restaurant in the state is beyond me. Meanwhile, Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot are packed on any given weekend in my area. And Marty, I do understand you have a different opinion and that is fine. When I talk to people at stores, restaurants, etc. I ask what do you think about all of these precautions I have yet to hear this is great. What I have heard time and time again is that my business is barely surviving, I haven't paid myself, the income coming in is barely keeping the lights on in this place. In my opinion you don't ruin businesses over this and people are fed up.
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Post by martycanuck on Aug 11, 2020 6:14:14 GMT -5
So people in your office aren’t concerned that this virus seems to be like MERS and spreads in large centrally air-conditioned spaces with a lot of people? Marty, No people in my office aren't paranoid. I have been back to work for two weeks now and every one in my office believes all of this is completely overblown. As I said we only have 18 people total in my office and we have only had eight people in the office at one time. I believe people have to live their lives and too many small businesses have gone under. Three of the gyms near me have close permanently. And, a restaurant that is near my home is going to close after being in business since 1954. They can't survive on only 25% maximum capacity a dictate by Commandant Tom Wolf of Pennsylvania. How he came up with 25% for every restaurant in the state is beyond me. Meanwhile, Walmart, Lowe's, Home Depot are packed on any given weekend in my area. And Marty, I do understand you have a different opinion and that is fine. When I talk to people at stores, restaurants, etc. I ask what do you think about all of these precautions I have yet to hear this is great. What I have heard time and time again is that my business is barely surviving, I haven't paid myself, the income coming in is barely keeping the lights on in this place. In my opinion you don't ruin businesses over this and people are fed up. So when people don’t take precautions and the virus steam-rolls your town what is the upside of that? Wearing masks does not impede running most businesses. It is a minor inconvenience at best. 25% capacity for a restaurant does seem a little strong but again it is more than proven that the virus thrives in spreading in enclosed and air-conditioned spaces. In Ontario the Gov’t relaxed the rules about patios so restaurants can expand them and seat more people outside to help those businesses. I am in agreement we can’t shut down business forever but in the beginning I think it did stem the spread so that it is at a manageable level and bought us time to come up with strategies to allow things to move forward. What I see different is that in the US people grew impatient with it too quickly, went straight back to their old ways and now the US is leading the world in all the wrong categories regarding Covid.
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Post by martycanuck on Aug 11, 2020 6:34:49 GMT -5
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Post by martycanuck on Aug 11, 2020 6:42:43 GMT -5
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mank
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Post by mank on Aug 11, 2020 6:54:46 GMT -5
Marty,
Again you went off the rails. Where did I say people in my office aren't wearing masks? And where is God's name do you make the assumption that the virus is going to steam roll Pittsburgh or Cranberry Township where I work. If you sit in an office you don't have to wear a mask as long as your door is closed. If you are in a cubicle, which most of us are, you have to wear a mask. But, when nobody is here in the office, such as now, I am NOT wearing my mask right now. I put it on if someone comes in. Now, we have two lab areas a good 80 feet apart or more that one person is works in each of the labs. They don't have to wear their masks but they do have to wipe everything down when they are done. If anyone walks around in the office to the kitchen, bathrooms, etc., they wear their masks. I don't know anyone that has Covid or had Covid. One of my son's friends is a nurse in a Covid unit in Texas and has been since the pandemic started and she doesn't have Covid either. I believe it will kill some people but not most people just like the flu. I think a lot of what is reported is based on politics. But, as others have said, it is tragic that people will die from this but we must go on with our lives and not destroy people's means of living over this.
And 25% is ridiculous and when pressed Wolf and his minions can't say how they came up with that number. Of course he is a Democrat...
Oh and what is this underwear you talk about?
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Post by martycanuck on Aug 11, 2020 9:02:55 GMT -5
Not sure what the invalid argument is, a mask will slow down the distance a virus will travel but the virus can still travel through the mask. I think that is the point Ben was making. And, sitting at my desk at work when nobody is within a good 20 feet or more of me is a bit ridiculous. That is why most people in my office take them off when they are at their desks. We do have protocols in place that we have to wipe down our work area with disinfectant wipes for the areas we touched, mouse, keyboard, computers, laptops, etc. when we leave to go home. And again, nobody is going into my work area and touching my equipment nor am I going into anyone else's area and touching items in their workspace. But, we have to wipe down everything as a requirement for working in the office. I personally, don't mind doing any of that since it is good to see my colleagues again in person after four plus months. Well perhaps I misread that you aren’t personally taking your mask off, but right here you did say that people in your office do when they are at their desk but perhaps you can see how I interpreted that. Sitting in an air-conditioned building with other people is where you need a mask on more than anything. You don’t have to be close to them. If someone is giving off the virus in a room with no fresh air replacement the AC just keeps recirculating it and concentrating the viral load in the air.
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MalcolmR
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Post by MalcolmR on Aug 11, 2020 9:17:26 GMT -5
Would the virus survive the trip through the AC chiller?
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Post by martycanuck on Aug 11, 2020 9:28:43 GMT -5
Marty, Again you went off the rails. Where did I say people in my office aren't wearing masks? And where is God's name do you make the assumption that the virus is going to steam roll Pittsburgh or Cranberry Township where I work. If you sit in an office you don't have to wear a mask as long as your door is closed. If you are in a cubicle, which most of us are, you have to wear a mask. But, when nobody is here in the office, such as now, I am NOT wearing my mask right now. I put it on if someone comes in. Now, we have two lab areas a good 80 feet apart or more that one person is works in each of the labs. They don't have to wear their masks but they do have to wipe everything down when they are done. If anyone walks around in the office to the kitchen, bathrooms, etc., they wear their masks. I don't know anyone that has Covid or had Covid. One of my son's friends is a nurse in a Covid unit in Texas and has been since the pandemic started and she doesn't have Covid either. I believe it will kill some people but not most people just like the flu. I think a lot of what is reported is based on politics. But, as others have said, it is tragic that people will die from this but we must go on with our lives and not destroy people's means of living over this. And 25% is ridiculous and when pressed Wolf and his minions can't say how they came up with that number. Of course he is a Democrat... Oh and what is this underwear you talk about? What the Christ do politics have to do with the number they picked? Democrats are just mean people who want to destroy business for shits and giggles? C’mon and think about what you said. I hate unilateral partisan comments. It does nothing to move anything forward. It’s just a “blame the other guys for everything but we’re perfect attitude.” There are really dumb people on both sides of the floor who will put their own ideas and interests ahead of anyone else. I can think of one in particular who is the Liar-King of them all. Anyway within an office or cubicle is of little consequence if you all share a common AC feed. Listen, I’m glad you are being responsible about your use of it. I also get that you don’t think this thing is this bad. It may not be worse than a regular flu in terms of the illness to any given individual. Why it is worse than a flu is that no one has immunity to it. It spreads super easy. It would take no time at all without measures to control it for the number of critical cases to completely overwhelm the health system. That’s when people start dying needlessly. Lots of them and simply because there are too many critically ill people to treat. People do die of the common flu every year but many people don’t get flu because they either have immunity or chose to get a vaccine. You don’t have that head start with Covid yet. One day it will be just another “common flu” but that day is not today. How many deaths are enough? DT floated some numbers early on where he thought it would top out. You’ve doubled those already and still growing at an astounding pace. Complacency is the biggest friend this virus has. It does need to be treated as a serious threat.
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Post by martycanuck on Aug 11, 2020 9:29:28 GMT -5
Would the virus survive the trip through the AC chiller? Like MERS, the cool air actually is beneficial to the virus.
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mank
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Post by mank on Aug 11, 2020 10:20:43 GMT -5
Marty,
I just don't care. I do what my company demands of me. I meet our protocols. I think Raytheon has thought this through. I wear my mask in common areas, I self assess, I wipe down my cubicle. I tend to think Raytheon with 200,000 employees knows a bit more than you do. I can't help it if you disagree. But, it is your choice to stay home. That is a viable choice for anyone that does't feel safe. Myself, I have taken a train trip on an open air car,gone to restaurants that are open, been to the beach, and I go to work, and practice the protocols necessary required by each place I frequent.
I think 500,000 deaths in the USA will be the total number, just like the doctor Mike Rowe quoted. That is actually a small percentage of the population. And such is life or death in this case.
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Post by martycanuck on Aug 11, 2020 11:07:01 GMT -5
Marty, I just don't care. I do what my company demands of me. I meet our protocols. I think Raytheon has thought this through. I wear my mask in common areas, I self assess, I wipe down my cubicle. I tend to think Raytheon with 200,000 employees knows a bit more than you do. I can't help it if you disagree. But, it is your choice to stay home. That is a viable choice for anyone that does't feel safe. Myself, I have taken a train trip on an open air car,gone to restaurants that are open, been to the beach, and I go to work, and practice the protocols necessary required by each place I frequent. I think 500,000 deaths in the USA will be the total number, just like the doctor Mike Rowe quoted. That is actually a small percentage of the population. And such is life or death in this case. I’m golfing, biking, going to our family cottage and we’ve been to the odd patio for lunch or dinner. Pretty normal. But I wear a mask where it is deemed appropriate. Don’t forget the mask does more to protect others from you than it does to protect you from others. If I am understanding your “I don’t care” correctly then it means you don’t give a damn if someone else dies due to carelessness on your part? What if they cared? I thought America was a country of people who valued the lives of all Americans? The info we get seems to suggest otherwise. More like one for one and all for me.
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Rob
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Post by Rob on Aug 11, 2020 11:54:35 GMT -5
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mank
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Post by mank on Aug 11, 2020 12:23:06 GMT -5
Marty,
It is pretty much useless discussing this with you. I NEVER said I am not wearing a mask when around others. Where in the world did you get that? Stop twisting my words around. I specifically said I am following all protocols required by the places I frequent. However, I do NOT wear a mask when I am walking outside in my neighborhood or biking.
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